Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Brian on March 26, 2012 at 3:38pm

Oh Egg,
 
Trying to raise a point with you is completely useless. Can you not read?  I clearly stated that I am not promoting either and you have simply said that incineration is better without providing any sort or argument or research. It's just your opinion right now and another rant which we all know from previous posts can not be changed or ever questioned. We all have to accept what Egg says or be bashed and criticized from his anonymous persona.   I am sure you'll respond with some harsh statement and criticism. Instead, please enlighten me and tell me why incineration is better than the current system. Unlike you, I am open to listen to others as long as it is not just because you say it so with nothing to back it up. You may very well be right. All I have said is that both methods have negative aspects to them and I don't believe that it is as clear cut as you state (but prove me wrong).  Just because wise old egg flick says so is not enough for me.

Egg Flik said:

Shouldn't you choose the lesser of the evils?  Your argument is that we stay with this new horrible method that costs more and has more health hazards than what was happening before?  $10 is always more than $1.  Your argument is that $1 is 1 more than 0, so your choice is $10.  What is your point, exactly?

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Permalink Reply by Leslie Barns on March 26, 2012 at 3:52pm

No argument or research?  I have two degrees in this stuff.  LOL.  I can definitely read.  I've read more on this topic than you have assumed to this point in this thread.  You have brought up nothing.  I asked you a question to see what your point is.  I've posted this before, yet nobody seems to be asking the right questions, even when Paula Fletcher says there's $100,000,000 going into fixing the problem.  

If you really want to get into the discussion, then do your own research.  Find out what's already been said instead of challenging people that have spoken to people that work at the plant, know a thing or two about microbiology and utilizing it in a plant, and have already posted on the subject.  Otherwise your'e just another desk jockey whining about other people's posts.  And yes, for the information I have provided, it is clear they are messing up, and spending a whackload of money to cover up their problem, when the previous setup obviously works for other cities, that have more direct placement in other Southern Ontario locations.  Did you miss that?  Is that not enough information for you?  Do you want a panel of people sat down in front of you to convince you?  Are you kidding me?  And my anonymity has anything to do with any part of the real problem here?  Who the hell are you, Brian?  Perhaps you should post your phone number so it brings some validity to it.  

Do your own homework.  Otherwise you look like a lazy government committee member of the overseeing committee of committees.  Just a desk jockey with no input whatsoever except to question everybody else.  

So your goal is to ask questions until you've rewritten the books of basic microbiology?  Get to a local overpaid library and read.  That is, if they have anything recent on the topic.  In the meantime, read what I put.  Yes, the whole thing.  You think I just come up with this stuff to entertain you?  

And I'll ask again.  What is your point?  You've downplayed both options currently presented, yet offered absolutely nothing.  You haven't even measured each against each other.  I've offered lots into this topic, presented before, talked to people more than once, phoned people about the subject, and studied it not only in Canada but internationally, and owned my own business that is related.  And your input into this?  "both is bad".  Well done.  

And people wonder why I think Canadians are pushovers.  100% of the people that need a solution, just coming to the table with questions.  Don't like my opinion, then don't read my posts.  Or, just to have a laugh, I could just come in and question everything that's on this site.  From gardening, to restaurants, to construction, to health issues...you name it.  Just question everything.  

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Permalink Reply by Brian on March 26, 2012 at 4:00pm

Awesome response Egg!

I am not claiming to be the expert, and if you dislike Canadians so much then by all means why don't you leave the country.  You are the one who has claimed that incineration is better so I am interested in knowing why you feel that way. You began the argument that incineration is better and all I have said is that either option is not without it's perils.  You have no idea what I do so please don't call me a lazy government committee member (and that statement in itself says a lot about your prejudices).  And stop the personal insults please. I still do not understand why admin allows these types of comments by you to continue? 

Egg Flik said:

No argument or research?  I have two degrees in this stuff.  LOL.  I can definitely read.  I've read more on this topic than you have assumed to this point in this thread.  You have brought up nothing.  I asked you a question to see what your point is.  I've posted this before, yet nobody seems to be asking the right questions, even when Paula Fletcher says there's $100,000,000 going into fixing the problem.  

If you really want to get into the discussion, then do your own research.  Find out what's already been said instead of challenging people that have spoken to people that work at the plant, know a thing or two about microbiology and utilizing it in a plant, and have already posted on the subject.  Otherwise your'e just another desk jockey whining about other people's posts.  And yes, for the information I have provided, it is clear they are messing up, and spending a whackload of money to cover up their problem, when the previous setup obviously works for other cities, that have more direct placement in other Southern Ontario locations.  Did you miss that?  Is that not enough information for you?  Do you want a panel of people sat down in front of you to convince you?  Are you kidding me?  And my anonymity has anything to do with any part of the real problem here?  Who the hell are you, Brian?  Perhaps you should post your phone number so it brings some validity to it.  

Do your own homework.  Otherwise you look like a lazy government committee member of the overseeing committee of committees.  Just a desk jockey with no input whatsoever except to question everybody else.  

So your goal is to ask questions until you've rewritten the books of basic microbiology?  Get to a local overpaid library and read.  That is, if they have anything recent on the topic.  In the meantime, read what I put.  Yes, the whole thing.  You think I just come up with this stuff to entertain you?  

And I'll ask again.  What is your point?  You've downplayed both options currently presented, yet offered absolutely nothing.  You haven't even measured each against each other.  I've offered lots into this topic, presented before, talked to people more than once, phoned people about the subject, and studied it not only in Canada but internationally, and owned my own business that is related.  And your input into this?  "both is bad".  Well done.  

And people wonder why I think Canadians are pushovers.  100% of the people that need a solution, just coming to the table with questions.  Don't like my opinion, then don't read my posts.  Or, just to have a laugh, I could just come in and question everything that's on this site.  From gardening, to restaurants, to construction, to health issues...you name it.  Just question everything.  

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Permalink Reply by Leslie Barns on March 26, 2012 at 4:22pm

Because I'd rather raise the bar and have Canadians stop being the saps they continue to insist on being.  How about you stop bitching that others aren't carrying your best interests and do something?  And for the third time I am not the only one that's claimed incineration is better.  For the third time I ask you to go read what I put.  Ironically you're asking me if I can read.  Go read it again.  I'll say it again.  Go read it again.  Awesome avoidance, Brian.  Truly fantastic.  I know you don't do any microbiology, nor are you analytical in any sense.  So please, leave the science up to the scienticians before you start saying "both are bad, but who knows?"  Your point basically is completely empty, other than saying "well both are not wholesome organic problem solvers."  

My prejudices are against stupid government.  We're surrounded by it, supported by lazy people in this country.  Don't see it?  Walk around Leslieville.  Have a good look.  Leave the denial at home.  In fact, read the news as well.  City news, Provincial news, Federal news.  And yes, I'm fuming mad with the way things are going.  Everybody wants money yet nobody is creating any value.  People run to the government tit for everything these days, and the tit is realizing how important it is more and more every day.  They love it because it boosts their ego.  So they announce $100m solutions for problems they have created themselves, and they think they're stars.  How about $100m to create a training program to get people off our streets?  Or to get people off welfare?  Nah, let's just use it to fix problems that couldn't possibly mimic solutions in cities two hours away, also recommended by the knowledgeable people that work at the plant itself.  You know, educated people.  I'm interested in a solution.  I can ask questions until projects are completely stalled, but that would be too easy.  

Oh and you feel insulted because I called you out on your inability to read, while asking me if I could read.  I'm insulted when I post something of value, pointing out what's wrong and what should be done about it, and people don't read it.  

Currently you have stink in the air and two microbiologists talking about it, one of which has the job of dealing with the problem and elaborating on the actual functionality of the location.  He's provided a solution and an example of where it's being used, with all the benefits, ON TOP of fixing the stank.  But it's this ward/riding's incessant fetish with a completely dysfunctional lying political cult that buys us into these problems.  Fine, then do as your sacred cabbage says, and toss out what science has theorized and proven for several decades, and toss out the demonstration of such an approach by another city.  All because people like the orange.  Don't expect my respect nor my sympathy.  

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Permalink Reply by Naomi Eaton on March 26, 2012 at 4:26pm

Egg, you're being unreasonable.

It isn't reasonable to expect people in a casual online discussion to devote hours of time pouring over books on a subject that marginally influences their life.  If you know so much about it, it is hardly unreasonable to expect you to share details rather than generalities. 

It was reasonable to request details because you have not actually offered any.  "It is clear that they are messing up and spending a whackload of money" does not constitute details about the costs and benefits of incineration/non-incineration.

No one was saying they "didn't like your posts" or was challenging  your knowledge on the subject.  No one was presenting themselves as against you or assuming your posts were "just to entertain them".  Getting upset and ranting when someone asks you for a few details on your position is not a way to helpfully educate them on a subject you are familiar with.  It also shows a lack of respect for those trying to engage you in discussion.   

You could have chosen to take this opportunity to share your knowledge when requested rather than attacking anyone who doesn't immediately appear to agree with you 100% (again, going on the defensive when asked for details is a strange response).  

For the record, I am the site's volunteer moderator but I try to use a very light touch (mostly I remove blatant advertising posts from discussion areas or make sure posts are in the right categories).  I have noticed your posts becoming increasingly combative, Egg.  This forum benefits greatly from everyone sharing their knowledge and I think you have some great things to share.  Please try to take a step back and think about what people are really saying.  They aren't likely to be trying to attack you. 

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Permalink Reply by Leslie Barns on March 26, 2012 at 4:28pm

OK, fine.  Start a committee.  I'm out.  

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Permalink Reply by Brian on March 26, 2012 at 8:25pm

Egg,

I really do not understand your responses.  I may not be a microbiologist with two degrees in that area but I am very aware of the scientific research world and know that no scientist simply makes a claim and expects someone to accept it without something to back it up. They make their assertion and are usually happy to discuss their reasons for coming to this conclusion.  Science is advanced through research, debate and discussion.  It baffles me why you would make a claim and then tell me it is my responsibility to then research it.  I am not even trying to argue against your point, I simply want to know why you feel incineration is best.  Part of science is presenting your argument and having others see why your point is valid and better than theirs, or perhaps having others show you why your view point is perhaps not the best.  And then there are situations where both sides continue to keep their opinion.  All of this is how ideas are exchanged and science advances.  Not by simply saying you are right and dismissing any questions about your opinions.

Asking you to explain why you feel incineration is best is a logical question.  You simply made a claim and have said the decision is because the government at the time was throwing cash around.  I believe that there is more to it than that, although I am not saying this did not have any influence.  These decisions are not made without in depth research and recommendations from the scientific community (both within the city and outside - and just because one works for the city does not make them lazy - I do not work for the city before you try to make that claim). In fact, the city has decided to stop all waste incineration (not just at Ashbridges) and to be sure these were contentious decisions with both sides putting forward some strong arguments. 

So I will ask you one last time to learn why you think incineration is the best option.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Enviro Health Promo on March 29, 2012 at 4:51pm

Hello all, I may be able to add some info. The odour issue has been discussed earlier and as Susan points out it is important to call in complaints so there is a record.  That goes for sewage (311), asphalt or any other odour. Call Ministry of Environment (416) 326-3381 (put number on fridge!).

It is my understanding that the sewage incinerator was one of the worst emitters of dioxin in the great lakes basin. Dioxin is very toxic. That said there is some research that was done that demonstrated that there were health effects from the burning of sewage sludge. The following link has a report and a summary http://www.toronto.ca/health/hphe/abtp_emissions.htm The community worked hard with the councillor and MPP to find alternative ways of dealing with the sludge. The pelletizer is one of those alternatives.

The incineration issue comes up quite frequently in this area (zoned for heavy industry). It is often re-branded as "gassification, pyrolosis or waste to energy". There is an international resource at http://www.no-burn.org/ for a fairly comprehensive body of research on the topic of burning waste.

The first health study (cited in first paragraph above) recommended that all sources of air pollution be looked at to determine any health impacts. That study was just completed for Beaches / South Riverdale and is available at http://www.toronto.ca/teo/reports-resources.htm . It has some interesting and compelling research (regional, and local sources). The main culprit seems to be traffic.

Great to hear there is interest in the topic, maybe we can host a local meeting to share info and field questions with an eye to brainstorming on some ways to improve the air. We did that a few years back and now we have the Dundas East bike lanes. Look forward to future discussions and action.

Paul

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Permalink Reply by Naomi Eaton on March 29, 2012 at 5:01pm

Thanks Paul, especially for the links.  

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Permalink Reply by jg on June 6, 2012 at 12:46pm

 

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Permalink Reply by jg on June 6, 2012 at 12:46pm

Air Quality Community Meeting   Wednesday June 13, 7- 9pm South Riverdale Community Health Centre 955 Queen St. East Hosted by  Councillor Paula Fletcher and  MPP Peter Tabuns   On Wednesday June 13 at the South Riverdale Community Health Centre (SRCHC) from 7-9pm we will be hosting a Community Meeting to review the findings of last year's Air Quality Study by Toronto Public Health, provide updates on changes since the study was taken and discuss how we can continue working to improve the air quality.   Improving and protecting our air quality has been an ongoing issue in Leslieville and across Ward 30. Health Promoter Paul Young of the SRCHC, Rod Adams of the Ministry of the Environment, representatives from the Ashbridges Bay Treatment Plant/Toronto Water, Toronto Public Health, Toronto Port Lands Corporation, and the Toronto Environment Alliance will contribute to the discussion and be available to answer your questions.

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