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Paula Fletcher just tweeted she wants more subsidized housing in the East End

It seems the Left has a well understood mandate regarding: "Leslieville being 'protected' from over-gentrification by the high number of social housing projects in the area is quite well taken. These projects are not subject to economic forces and will remain, in some form, forever. And accordingly, there will always be enough addicts, prostitutes and crime in Leslieville to prevent a full-scale transformation into a family-friendly neighbourhood like the Beach or 'prime' Riverdale"...

"'insulation' against gentrification was installed quite deliberately by then-councillor (now MPP) Peter Tabuns back in the early 1990s. He saw gentrification coming and ushered in these housing projects, over the objection of the local residents (he once called the Woodgreen building at 1070 Queen East, which takes up almost an entire block with no retail at grade, "the most beautiful building in Riverdale"). What you are seeing now in Leslieville, therefore, is a clash between the free market, which favours Leslieville because of its excellent location and under-priced housing stock, and the legacy of socialist housing policy."

comment from Bill

http://torontoist.com/2006/05/joe_clark_you_h.php#

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Permalink Reply by Retro Rebel on May 1, 2011 at 10:29pm

Chris....Downtown communities like diversity. I think it's shameful all this hateful CLASSIST stuff is happening here. I would rather work with many different kinds of people within our communities then to "fear" them and "push them out" once the "905 er's start to take over. Leslieville historically is working class, and had lower income families living here. Poor people who need subsidies...because of their art, disablilities, or whatever... should get it.... or would you rather see them stay on the streets or in extremely substandard housing?

Christine Annika said:

Couldn't agree more with Greig, Pat and Tim.

But gotta say that I do admire Chris for bringing his 905 views into a 416 'hood, and for getting the conversation going about this important topic.

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Permalink Reply by Retro Rebel on May 1, 2011 at 10:31pm

you should't be able to have children...just saying

chris said:

Hi Pat,

For the 101st time

- the City SHOULD buy/commission/ a lot of art for our public parks and buildings

- we SHOULD NOT get into the landlord business and subsidize housing for artists

in 20 years from now, ideally:

"Torontos backward on public housing: Get em out, not in"

- I hope Toronto is out of the Landlording business

- I hope all the able bodied people are looking for jobs and not caught up in the system for life

- I hope all able bodied people living in city single family housing do not assume they are a tenant for life

- oh! and people on public assistance for more than 5 years should not be able to have unlimited children...just saying!

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Permalink Reply by YOSHA SIFFERMAN on May 1, 2011 at 10:41pm

Actually, it's neighbours like you - Iain and Chris - who drive down property and humanitarian values - in an otherwise progressive neighbourhood. I imagine you're great fans of Schadenfreude. (look it up)

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Permalink Reply by Leslie Barns on May 2, 2011 at 4:12am

RR, I think there's a need for some clarity here. Here's my take:

- Addictions. Nobody is born an addict. The most important choice you can make in life is that very first time you try an addictive substance. It will steal your life away from you. Then, the rest of society gets the brunt of that responsibility, through crime and support.

- Mental health. While this is legitimate, a good proportion of it also comes upon the people to make good decisions. There are ways to optimize this through better choices. Here is a fine example of where a situation can completely drive you into bad choices: Petawawa Troops Article.

- Poverty. Poverty is a case of less income than spending. Spending outside of your means. Education is free. Finishing high-school, then getting into a trade, can be a free ride. There is no reason someone can't get a job.

There are indeed situations where people get caught and need some assistance. However, there are a vast number of examples where people just don't care. They don't get educated, they don't seek work, they don't want to work, they literally sign up for addictions, and they expect everybody else to adapt and take care of their fellow man. That means save injection sites, "freedom" from prosecution for illegal practices, and policing to protect them from yet other people that take advantage of them that provide yet another danger.

Everybody has responsibility. Everybody. This neighbourhood is packed with people that have absolutely no reason to be in such a situation. In fact, the best thing you could do for them is to give them a kick in the ass (figuratively) to get them out of a position of reliance. Generational welfare recipients that create problems for other people, are a large hidden burden on society, because they steal the resources away from people that really need them. People riding the TTC to work on a daily basis are carrying these failures, while the failures rob them on the way home from work. You don't think so? Check out Spotcrime.com.

Oh, and that goes for unions as well. If you want to see a lot of wasted free money, click this link.

Now, you can either realize what downtown has afforded by just getting on a bicycle and touring Leslieville and Downtown-East. Major construction projects are rebuilding the downtown projects. Last time I checked, downtown real-estate in any city is a highly-valued asset. We have major swaths of land that are jam packed with this sort of thing. Is it a surprise that crime is higher in these areas? How much money do we spend on that? Why is it that crime statistics are not released? Because they tell a story, that's why.

In light of what I have said, my response to how you say "it's our responsibility to support our fellow humans" is that I think we need to deliver some tough love. There's too much free tax flowing around this City, Province and Country. It's only creating a worse outcome for many people, because it supports their irresponsibility.

Retro Rebel said:

why do people hate poor folk so much? what's wrong with social housing? it's our responsibility as a rich country to support our fellow humans. I will never be able to understand such strong dislike for people with addictions, mental health, and people who are living in poverty.

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Permalink Reply by Leslie Barns on May 2, 2011 at 4:47am

Diversity is fine. The argument isn't about diversity. Classist? Like it or not, there are classes. Your comment indicates that you want to work with people. The people you brought up in another message...aren't workers. They're takers. Lower class and lower income families aren't the issue. I reserve to debate the "who need subsidies...because of their art" though. My art is sleeping, yet I don't see any funding coming to my door. Art is nice, but my tax dollars need to address real issues.

There is no need to be on the streets in Canada. Anywhere. A lot of people I see on the streets are not desperate. They chose to be lazy. They're whiners, and they don't know how ridiculous they look. I have absolutely no sympathy for them. Same goes for gang members that get shot and killed, same goes for the idiots asking for "$7 for bus fare to Hamilton because my girlfriend kicked me out of my house".

Retro Rebel said:

Chris....Downtown communities like diversity. I think it's shameful all this hateful CLASSIST stuff is happening here. I would rather work with many different kinds of people within our communities then to "fear" them and "push them out" once the "905 er's start to take over. Leslieville historically is working class, and had lower income families living here. Poor people who need subsidies...because of their art, disablilities, or whatever... should get it.... or would you rather see them stay on the streets or in extremely substandard housing?

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Permalink Reply by kellytoronto on May 2, 2011 at 7:29am

It's nice to hear we have an angry leftist (Retro/Yosha [are you the same person, or do you just time your posts together]) to counterbalance our angry conservative. The question I have is who is going to be the angry centrist? Please apply in this thread with your own non-sensical arguments or slander.

All others with rational comments please enjoy the show.

Retro Rebel said:

you should't be able to have children...just saying

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Permalink Reply by Retro Rebel on May 2, 2011 at 4:18pm

egg- wow, I think you have hardened my heart and completely changed my mind ..;) good one!

I am so glad I tuned into this.

oh...BTW people are born addicts, update your info.

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Permalink Reply by Retro Rebel on May 2, 2011 at 4:23pm

can't argue those well educated and empathic comments

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Permalink Reply by Leslie Barns on May 2, 2011 at 4:57pm

You'll have to explain that one.

Retro Rebel said:

oh...BTW people are born addicts, update your info.

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Permalink Reply by YOSHA SIFFERMAN on May 2, 2011 at 4:57pm

Kelly - haven't you heard? There's no such thing as an angry centrist. They're fence-sitters concerned with their own backyards. When you find a conscience, let the people in the world with hearts know.